专访 [Alexandros] | 我们的创作像鸟一样自由
2025-9-25
由 川上洋平（Kawakami Yoohei, 主唱兼吉他）、白井眞輝（Shirai Masaki，吉他）、磯部寛之（Isobe Hiroyuki，贝斯）、リアド偉武（Riad Ib，鼓手）组成的“括号团”[Alexandros] 一直都是日音迷们最爱的一支队伍，而在《PROVOKE》发布后，这支乐队也来到中国北京、上海、成都、广州进行开展一轮巡演。赶在上海演出开始前，UPEE 有幸与[Alexandros]的四位成员进行一期专访，分享关于《PROVOKE》的创作以及他们关于音乐的理解。
UPEE：时隔三年，你们在今年四月发布了新专辑《PROVOKE》，可以分享为什么想到以“Provoke”来命名这张专辑吗？你们觉得和上张专辑相比，你们的状态有发生什么变化吗？
Yoohei：这个专辑名最初源自我们还是业余音乐人时发行的一张 Demo 盘。那是在 2007 年，我们推出了一张名为《Provocation to Noble Artists》的 Demo 盘，我本人非常喜欢它。在制作这张新专辑、琢磨专辑名的过程中，我想了很多能表达我们内心感受、同时又能代表乐队本身的词汇。后来我回想起我们刚起步的那些日子，突然记起了《Provocation to Noble Artists》。那一刻我意识到，其实我们从那时起就没怎么变过，我们的初心和信条都还在。于是我提议：“不如把专辑名叫 Provocation 怎么样？” 之后有人说要不要再改短一点，就这样，我们最终确定了专辑名为“PROVOKE”。
It first came from our demo CD that we released when we were like amateur men. It was back in 2007, yeah, we released a demo called Provocation to Noble Artists and I liked that demo CD. And when we were in the production of this new album, coming up with this title, I was thinking of many words that express our feelings and the band itself. And when I looked back to our old days, like the beginning days, I found this demo CD that we released on the streets, Provocation to Noble Artists. And I realized that we haven’t really changed from those days—our feelings and our motto. So I said, what about naming the album Provocation? Then someone told me why don’t we just make it shorter? It’s very cool. So that’s how we got the title Provoke.
UPEE：你们觉得和上张专辑相比，你们的状态有发生什么变化吗？
Yoohei：我觉得这张专辑有很多好歌，旋律更出色了，编曲也更精良了。但最棒的变化，是鼓手 リアド偉武 加入了乐队成为正式成员。上一张专辑的时候，他还是临时鼓手，而现在他已经是正式鼓手了。所以我认为这是和上一张专辑相比，最大的变化。
I think this album simply has many good songs. It’s got better melodies and better arrangements. But the best change was him (Riad Ib, the drummer) being in the band. He was a temporary drummer for the last album, but now he’s the official drummer. So I think that’s the biggest change from the former album.
UPEE：关于《PROVOKE》，可以分享在这之中各位成员最印象深刻的曲目分别是什么吗？
Hiroyuki：我的天，这简直是最难回答的问题了。
Oh my God, that is like the hardest question ever.
Masaki：我会选《Fabric Youth》。这首歌对我们来说是一种全新的风格，而且这也是我第一次使用十二弦吉他演奏，对我而言也非常有感觉。
Fabric Youth, this is a new sound for us and this is my first time use twelve string guitar, and I got feelings to it.
Hiroyuki：说实话，我基本上喜欢这张专辑里所有的歌，但如果非要从中选一首的话，我会选《Backseat》。它和其他歌曲一样，本身就是首很棒的作品，但它又格外特别 —— 在我们的演出中演奏这首歌时，我感觉特别好。
I mean, I literally love all songs basically, but if I had to choose one out of them, I would say Backseat. It simply is a great song like others. But it’s really a special song, and I feel really good playing it at our shows.
Yoohei：我最喜欢的曲目其实总在变，所以现在来说，是《With All Due Respect》。
I really changes, so right now, With All Due Respect.
Riad Ib：我会选《Everybody Knows》。我们前天在北京演出时演奏了这首歌，效果特别好。它有很棒的旋律也充满力量。
I will say Everybody Knows. We played in Beijing the day before yesterday it was great. It has a good melody and is really powerful.
UPEE：在专辑中还有与 WurtS 进行合作，可以分享跟他的合作是如何达成的吗？
Yoohei：他去年作为嘉宾参加了我们的音乐节演出，在那之前，他就曾作为嘉宾上过我在日本的电台节目，我们早在那个时候就已经成了朋友。所以后来我就问他：“要不要一起合作首歌？”他答应了。我们并没有真的一起进录音室，只是把我们已经制作好的音轨发给了他，然后他就说“好啊，我来参与”。他在这首歌里加入了一些说唱部分，加了一些编曲，这次合作就是这样达成的。
He came to our festival last year as a guest and we became friends. Well, before that, he was my guest on my radio show in Japan, and we became friends then. So I asked him, why don’t we do a collaboration? And he said yes. We haven’t really gotten into the studio together; we just sent him the track that we had worked on, and he was like, yeah, he’d do it. He did some rap on it and put some arrangements on it, and that’s how we did it.
UPEE：作为一个活动时间非常长的乐队，成员们之间的相处模式是什么样的？
Hiroyuki：我们相处的模式基本上和以前一样，不是吗？对，没什么太大变化。你知道的，当我们在录音室里的时候，彼此就像 “敌人” 一样 —— 会为了工作争执。但到了巡演的时候，我们又会变回好朋友。
I mean, we basically get along the same way as before, don’t we? Yeah, there’s not much of a difference. You know, when we’re in the studio, we’re all like enemies—we fight with each other. But during a tour, we become friends again.
Yoohei：不只是工作伙伴，也不只是朋友，我们是所有这些关系的集合体。我们有点像家人，但同时也是工作上的同伴。其实，这种关系真的很难解释清楚。嗯，我觉得这就是乐队独有的氛围吧。乐队成员就是乐队成员 —— 不多一分，也不少一分。要知道，只有这些人，才是能和我们一起组成这支乐队的人。
We’re not only workmates, not only friends; we’re everything put together. We’re kind of like family, but we’re also workmates. In fact, it’s really hard to explain. Yeah, that’s the band vibe, I guess. Band members are just band members—no more, no less. You know, these guys are the only ones who can be in this band with us.
UPEE：在这么长的时间里有没有感到创作瓶颈的时候，你们又会如何处理这样的情况呢？
Yoohei：我觉得如果不想做音乐，就没必要强迫自己。你可以去看戏剧、和朋友聊天、开车兜风 —— 试着做些能给你带来启发、让你重新找回动力的事。所以我觉得自己特别幸运，因为我做音乐从不需要勉强。我创作音乐是很自然的事，就像随口就能哼出来一样，所以我几乎从来没有过 “现在写不出歌” 的困扰。不过偶尔还是会有想不出好旋律、编不出好编曲的时候，这种情况确实会发生。但这时候其他成员会帮我一起解决。所以能在这支乐队里，我真的觉得很幸运。
I think if you don’t want to make music, you don’t have to force yourself. You can go to the theater, talk to your friends, go driving—try to do things that stimulate you and bring back motivating feelings. So I think I’m so lucky that I’m someone who makes music without having to force it. I make music naturally, like it just comes out of my mouth, so I never had the struggle of thinking “I can’t make music now.” But there are slight moments when I can’t come up with good melodies or good arrangements. Sometimes that happens. But then the other members help me with it. So I think I’m really lucky to be in this band.
Hiroyuki：去夏威夷啊。（Yoohei：对，去夏威夷 —— 每年去一次。我们已经有段时间没去了，所以 ——）咱们真得去一趟，哈哈。
Go to Hawaii. (Yoohei: Yeah, go to Hawaii, once a year, we haven’t been there so -) We have to do that, haha.
UPEE：有乐迷评论你们为“定义了他心中 J-Rock 的风格”，与此同时我也发现你们在不同专辑里也有不同在曲风上的探索，例如《Exist!》会更多元，《PROVOKE》好像更加 Metal，《But wait. Cats?》会更加 Pop，你们会如何形容[Alexandros]的音乐？
Yoohei：我从来没机会去思考这个问题，因为我不太擅长用语言来描述我们自己。所以我也不太擅长接受采访，而我想，这正是我们做音乐的原因。就连我们的经纪人也有这个困扰 —— 比如不知道怎么在采访里介绍我们的情况。但这恰恰是关键所在。我的意思是，这就是我们喜欢做音乐的原因。如果我们擅长用语言表达情感，或许我们会成为小说家之类的人。但我们不知道该如何用语言把心里和脑子里的想法表达出来，所以我们才在音乐中用乐器和歌声来展现自己。至于 J-Rock，我们国家还有其他乐队，但我对他们其实不太了解。当然，有很多很棒的乐队，我们也和其中一些是好朋友，但我从来没想过要在音乐层面上和他们归为一类。我不想只属于某一个音乐圈子。或许这是我一直以来的一个想法 —— 不想被那个概念所束缚。
I never had a chance to think about that, because I’m not really good at expressing ourselves in words. So I’m not really good at interviews either, and that’s why I think we make music. Even our manager has this problem—like, expressing things about us in interviews. But that’s the point. I mean, that’s why we like to make music. If we were good at expressing our feelings with words, maybe we could have been novelists and suchlike. But we have no idea how to express the things from our hearts and brains with words. That’s why we use instruments and vocals in music to express ourselves. And about J-Rock—there are other bands in our country, I’m not really familiar with them. Yes, there are so many good bands, and we are good friends with some of them, but I never thought of connecting with them musically. I don’t want to be part of just the one scene. That’s maybe one thing I always wanted—to not be confined by that concept.
UPEE：你们觉得这些关于音乐风格的定义或者标签，对你们的创作而言是带来了更多的思路还是限制？
Hiroyuki：从创作层面来说，我们就是随心所欲地做音乐，什么都不去想。我可能有点在重复回答上一个问题了，但像流派这类东西，本就是留给你们这样的媒体去解读的，不是吗？我的意思是，我们在创作上可以随性，做完之后（这些作品的解读权）就全归你们了。所以在创作层面，我们就像鸟儿一样自由。就比如 Yoohei 会听各种各样的音乐，我们也会从他那里获得灵感。我试着跟上他的步伐 —— 去听他听的音乐，甚至还会找更多其他的来听 —— 但他从来没让我追上过。不过，说真的，这还挺厉害的。而且每次我们创作新曲目时，我都会试着让自己的思路焕然一新，对我来说，这就是身在这支乐队最大的乐趣。
Production-wise, we just do it freely without thinking about anything. I might be answering the previous question again, but genres and kind of stuff are journalists for you to explain, right? I mean, we do whatever we want to do, and then it’s all yours afterwards. So production-wise, we’re free as birds. You know, like, okay, he (Yoohei) listens to all kinds of music and we get inspired by him. I try to catch up—listen to all the music that he listens to and beyond—but he never lets me catch up. Well, yeah, it’s amazing. And I try to refresh my mind every time we produce a new track, and that’s the biggest fun for me as a member of this band.
UPEE：你们创作一首曲目的过程通常是什么样的？
Yoohei：通常我会先构思旋律 —— 也就是歌曲的核心部分。之后可能会琢磨一些编曲细节，比如鼓点，再接着确定和弦走向。然后我就把这些想法抛给其他成员，我们一起商量完善。我经常和鼓手Riad Ib 沟通，他会提出很多想法，之后我们一起梳理整合这些思路。至于贝斯部分，我没有什么固定的想法，所以都是 Hiroyuki 自己来创作。吉他方面，我也会跟 Masaki 沟通，让他负责旋律以及其他和吉他相关的段落，之后他就会领会我的意图，再加入自己的创作。
Well, I come up with the melody first—like the core of the song. Then maybe some arrangements, like drums, and after that, work out the chords. Then I just throw (the ideas) at the others, and we figure that out together. I often talk a lot to the drummer, and he comes up with ideas; then we just sort them out together. And I don’t really have fixed ideas for the bass, so Hiroyuki does that on his own. For the guitar, I do the guitar as well, but I also ask him (Masaki) to work on melodies and other guitar-related parts, and then he’ll catch on and add his own touches.
UPEE：许多乐迷对[Alexandros]的印象里也包括“旋律流畅”这一点，你们在创作音乐的过程里是否会有特别地关注旋律的入耳性和记忆点？
Yoohei：我其实不会特意追求这件事。所以情况更像是，就像 “抓耳（catchy）” 这个词本身的意思一样，我会试着去捕捉比最初创作的旋律更出彩的东西。第一个版本的旋律已经不错了，但如果想让它变得更出色，我该怎么做呢？所以我就不断地探索、探索、再探索 —— 通过弹吉他、唱歌的过程去寻找，直到抓住那个理想的瞬间。而那就是旋律 “抓耳” 的关键所在。
I don’t really intentionally think about it. So it’s really like, as the word “catchy” suggests, I try to catch something that’s brighter than the melody I first made. The first melody is good, but if we want to make it great, what should I do? So I just search and search and search, into my guitar and singing, and I catch that moment. And that’s the catchiness.
Hiroyuki：Yoohei 在这方面对自己特别严格。每次他第一次把旋律带到录音室时，我基本上一听就喜欢上了 —— 喜欢得不得了。我会跟他说我很喜欢，但他从来都不满意。他总会说：“还不错，但还能更好。” 是啊，有时候我夸这旋律好，反倒像个 “坏人” 似的 —— 开玩笑。不过说真的，他对自己要求特别高，会为每一首曲目都竭尽全力去寻找能想到的最棒的旋律。这也是为什么《PROVOKE》能成为像它现在这么出色的成色。
He’s (Yoohei) really strict with himself about this, you know. When he brings his melody into the studio for the first time, I basically love it—love it so fucking much. And I tell him that, but he’s never satisfied. He’s like, “It’s not bad, but it could be better.” Yeah, it’s like I’m the bad guy for saying it’s good. Just joking. But yeah, he’s really tough on himself, searching for the greatest melody he can come up with for each and every track. That’s why Provoke became such a great album.
UPEE：对两天之前在北京的演出有什么感受吗？
Yoohei：那场演出太精彩了。那晚是我第一次真正享受表演《Philosophy》这首歌的过程。在《Philosophy》的结尾部分，有一段是大家一起唱 “啦，啦，啦”，与此同时，我会唱 “I’m not afraid”。所以这段是两个声部同时进行。在日本演出时，大多数情况下，观众只会唱 “啦，啦，啦” 的部分，只有我一个人唱“I’m not afraid”那段。但在北京，所有观众都在唱“I’m not afraid”。那真是个特别令人惊喜的瞬间。不仅如此，我还隐约意识到，其实在日本，我已经不指望粉丝们会唱那部分了 —— 我以为他们不会唱。可在北京，我根本没让他们唱那部分，他们却主动唱了。
It was wonderful. I mean, that was the first time I really enjoyed playing Philosophy. At the last part of Philosophy, there’s a section where you sing “la, la, la”, and at the same time, I sing “I’m not afraid.” So there are basically two parts of vocals being sung at the same time. Most of the time in Japan, people only sing the “la, la, la” part, and I’m the only one singing “I’m not afraid.” But in Beijing, all the people were singing “I’m not afraid.” That was a really surprising moment. Not only that, but I kind of realized that I had given up on fans singing that part in Japan—I thought they weren’t going to sing it. But in Beijing, I never asked them to sing that part, but they all did.
UPEE：可以分享你们觉得[Alexandros]的音乐在流媒体平台收听和在现场体验会有什么不同的体验吗？
Yoohei：因为流媒体上的版本是录好的，但说实话，录好的状态并不会是我们真正的最佳状态。是这样的，我们把音乐上传到 Spotify 之后，还会一遍又一遍地排练，然后才去办演唱会，对吧？所以我觉得我们放在 Spotify 上的音乐其实算不上多好。当然，这话对每个音乐人可能都适用 —— 我觉得没有哪个音乐人会喜欢听自己的流媒体版本。
Because the streaming version is recorded, but honestly, it’s not really where we’re good at it. Yeah, it’s like we practice and practice and practice after we put the music on Spotify, and then we do concerts. Right? So I think the music we put on Spotify isn’t really good. I mean, you could say that to every artist—so I think every artist doesn’t really like listening to their own streaming versions.
UPEE：所以你们会如何描述[Alexandros]的现场？
Hiroyuki：你得亲自去看才知道。这些歌确实不错，但反复听录好的版本其实并不是那么必要（相比现场来说）。录音版每次听都是一样的，当然它的质量是没问题的。但现场演出的妙处就在于此 —— 同一首歌听五遍，每一遍的感觉都会不一样，这就是现场演出最吸引人的地方。
You’re gonna have to watch it. They are good songs, but you don’t necessarily have to repeat listening to the recorded versions. And the recorded version is the same every time you listen to it. Of course, it’s recorded properly. But that’s what’s good about live concerts—you can listen to the same song five times, and they’re all different. Yeah, that’s the most attractive part of live concerts.
UPEE：接下来的几天你们要去到成都和广州，对此你们有什么期待吗？无论是想去到的地方或者想品尝的美食？
Yoohei：我想我会去做针灸。听说有位很厉害的针灸师，他或许能治好我的膝盖。
I think I’m going to acupuncture, I heard there’s a good acupuncture guy and he might fix my knees.
UPEE：因为我们是来自中国的媒体，我们好奇在中国内地，有没有哪些音乐人是你们感兴趣、觉得在之后可以合作的？
Yoohei：目前还没有。我其实没怎么听过中国的摇滚音乐。不过，主办方有给我介绍过一些中国的音乐人和歌手，但我还没真的接触过任何摇滚乐队。对吧？所以我想找找看中国的摇滚乐队，说不定能和他们合作，或者办一场拼盘演出之类的。
Not really. I haven’t really listened to Chinese rock music. There are some Chinese artists and singers that the organizer introduced to me, but I haven’t met any rock bands. Right? So I want to search for those rock bands and maybe do a collaboration with them, or maybe a split concert or something.
Hiroyuki：对，这或许也是我们一直来中国的原因之一。你懂的吧？如果有机会和中国乐队的成员成为朋友，那真的太棒了。就我个人而言，我特别期待这件事。
Yes, that could be one of the reasons why we keep on coming to China. You know? Yeah, if we have a chance to become friends with any members of Chinese bands, that would be awesome. Personally, I’m looking forward to that.