专访 The Flying Luttenbachers | 我们永远逆势而行
2026-5-10
在过去十二年间，明天音乐节已发展成为深圳重要的实验和前卫音乐平台之一，始终致力于支持那些游离于主流之外的艺术家。而在今年，UPEE 与明天音乐节进行合作，我们将在接下来的更新中与本届明天音乐节阵容中的五组音乐人进行专访。
以 35 年的先锋探索，在不协和与复杂结构中锻造独属于自己的音乐语言，The Flying Luttenbachers 将现代主义、朋克内核与极端前卫融合，在独一无二的“Brutal Prog”里拒绝潮流、坚守反叛。他们此次受邀来到中国，登上第十届明天音乐节，带来 2026 年唯一专场演出。UPEE 有幸邀请这支传奇前卫乐队展开专访，一同走进他们创作哲学与现场精神。乐队主创 Walter Weasel 回答了我们的问题。
UPEE：在你们去年的专辑《Losing the War Inside Our Heads》中，你们又一次重新演绎梅西安（Olivier Messiaen）的作品，我们好奇在你们的心目中会如何形容梅西安的音乐，可以分享他的作品是如何影响你们的创作的吗？
在当下对梅西安的感受与 2005 年创作专辑《Cataclysm》之际有什么不同吗？
Weasel：我常开玩笑地把梅西安的作品称作“献给耶稣的死亡金属”，这算是我个人存在主义式脱口秀的一部分调侃。
从审美根源上，我十分认同所谓 20 世纪现代主义音乐（21 世纪的相关流派我反倒不算熟悉）。梅西安的作曲逻辑，是以极具智慧且独树一帜的方式去组织、解构声响，既植根传统，又远远超越了传统边界。同时他的音乐充满原始冲击力，恰好契合我骨子里的朋克底色。我的艺术创作始终力求让理性思考与本能宣泄融为一体。梅西安的音乐抽象、纯粹且立意鲜明，也启发我以同样自由且通透的视角去创作音乐。
随着人生阅历不断沉淀，我对复杂派音乐的理解也在同步成长。人生体验越丰富、心智越成熟，我越能从这类作品里挖掘出新的感悟。如今的我，能听见、看懂年轻时无法领会的音乐层次。作为创作者，我自然会把这些新的认知与感悟投射到作品中。我对音乐结构本身抱有极强的探究欲，而梅西安的全部创作，至今仍在持续启发着我。
I jokingly call Olivier Messiaen’s work “death metal for Jesus”, but that’s just a part of my existential stand-up comedy routine.
I relate strongly to so-called 20th Century Modernism as an aesthetic starting point (I cannot say I’m too up on the 21st Century version) and Messiaen’s approach to composition is based on organizing and manipulating sound in an intelligent and unique manner that includes, but reaches beyond tradition. I also find his music to be visceral, which appeals to my Punk roots. I always strive to unite the “brain” and “guts” in my art. Messiaen’s vision was very clear and pure in its abstraction, inspiring me to approach music with the same sort of freedom and clarity.
Complex music has grown with me as I interface it repeatedly through life. I can find new rewards in it as I experience more and my intellect matures. I am at a point as a human where I can see and hear things in ways I couldn’t in the past. It is natural for me as artistic expression to turn my perspectives and findings outward. I have a very keen interest in musical structure, and Olivier Messiaen’s body of work continues to inspire me.
UPEE：乐队早期兼容重型和自由爵士的创作风格与主创 Weasel 的乐迷偏好非常相关，而在近年你们愈发明确了现在的“brutal prog”的定位，你们是如何摸索出这一理念的？你们如今探索自己声音的方式跟当年有哪些变化？
Weasel：我本就是个逆势而行的人，向来刻意和潮流保持距离，无意依附任何圈子抱团。我的音乐创作，往往刻意跳出当下流行的文化风向。
00 年代时，我自创了“Brutal Prog”这个说法，用来把我自己的乐队以及同时代部分创作者，和传统前卫摇滚那种充斥长笛、梦幻浪漫感的柔美风格区分开来。这个标签本身就通俗易懂，也恰好精准概括了我的创作取向：偏向不协和、棱角尖锐、抽象化且极具持续冲击力。和很多音乐风格一样，是先有音乐本身，后来才有了定名。如今即便有其他乐队也自称“Brutal Prog”也无妨，但最初开创这种风格的乐队，只是单纯做自己想做的音乐，即便没有这个标签，我们也会坚持这样创作。The Flying Luttenbachers 的音乐，从来都是我个人各类审美与影响的融合产物；无论曲风归入哪一类，作品自带的强烈张力与浓烈气场始终如一。
I am a contrarian. I will always stand apart from trends. I have no interest in being part of any group which would include me as a member. My music is often in spite of whatever else is happening in culture.
In the early 2000s, “brutal prog” was a term I came up to differentiate my band (and some other contemporaries) from the traditional “flutes and fairies” whimsy and romanticism of usual “Prog”. I think it is self-descriptive, and it just happens to reflect my personal approach, which tends towards the dissonant, angular, abstract, and relentless. Like many genres, the music came first and name was an afterthought. If current bands are trying to be “brutal prog”, that’s fine, but the original bands were just trying to make the music they wanted and would have persisted without this label. The music of the Flying Luttenbachers was always merely a fusion of my own influences and interests; however there is a guaranteed intensity level regardless of what specific idiom the music falls into.
UPEE：对乐迷来说，不协和、不对称、结构复杂是The Flying Luttenbachers 在写作和编排上非常重要的特征，你们会如何形容演奏技术、创作审美和表达的关系，又会如何平衡它？
Weasel：The Flying Luttenbachers 的音乐，本质上是我个人理解的朋克现代主义，融合了大量多元甚至出人意料的音乐影响。演奏技术对我而言只是达成表达的工具与手段。我合作过的许多乐手，本身就一直在尝试突破世俗审美与常规演奏的边界。
我做的是极端风格音乐，需要拥有极致个人音色、独特音乐视野与高度投入态度的乐手来共同完成。我追求非同寻常的情绪张力与戏剧感，创作的作品本身就带有挑战性。我把我们的音乐视作听觉层面的恐怖片，希望乐队营造的现场体验是超脱世俗、极具精神穿透力的，而非平淡流俗。从词曲创作、演奏演绎，到视觉美术与乐队整体气质塑造，一切都是为了达成这种极致的精神表达。
The Luttenbachers music is really my own version of a “punk modernism”, including a lot of varied, possibly unexpected influences. The instrumental technique is just a means to an end. I think a lot of the musicians I have utilized were already trying to push beyond what the status quo was comfortable with. I play extreme music and require people with extreme voices, visions, and devotion to make it. I am interested in unusual intensity and drama. I create challenging music. I see it as the aural equivalent of a horror movie. I want the experience the group creates to be transcendent, not pedestrian. Everything, from the writing, to execution, the artwork and the mythos seeks to achieve this.
UPEE：在一场现场演出中，The Flying Luttenbachers 是怎样在演奏中体现乐手自己的技术个性的？
Weasel：我鼓励乐队成员在舞台上打破常规、释放气场，追求极致的表现。我们可以成为善意的星际异客，在舞台上施展隐秘的音乐仪式，为人类听众揭开潜藏的精神维度。现场演出是一种永不停歇、充满能量且极具爆发力的音乐仪式，演奏编排密集、音符庞杂。乐队成员必须吃透大量复杂曲目与乐理概念，才能胜任演出，而 TFL 现任阵容的乐手都极具敬业精神。虽然所有音乐都由我全权创作，但舞台呈现本身是全队协作的成果。
I encourage my band members to be iconoclastic and larger than life on stage. I want them to reach for the extraordinary. We are benevolent interstellar demons conjuring arcane rituals in an attempt to try and reveal hidden dimensions to lowly human beings. The stage show is a relentless, energetic, and athletic ritual. Also, there’s a hell of a lot of notes. My band members have to master a lot of material and concepts to do this. This current band is committed. I personally compose all the music, but this is a team effort.
UPEE：作为一支成立时间已有 35 年的乐队，我们好奇你们在现在如果演绎早期的创作，会在编排中进行什么样的改变吗？在现在回顾以前的作品又有什么感受？
Weasel：目前我们现场还会演的最早期作品是 2004 年的《The Void part One》，这首曲子至今仍能带给我独特的戏剧感与强烈的情绪共鸣。
但我并没有兴趣复刻旧作。回望那些早期创作，更像是我音乐成长路上稚嫩的起步阶段，铺垫出如今的风格高度。我并不排斥这些旧作，但它们已经无法代表我当下的创作心境，是只属于过去的。持续新的创作对我而言向来不难，而且如今我的创作水准也远比当年成熟，没必要回头沉溺过往。我始终认为向前探索才是关键，怀旧并无意义。
The oldest piece we perform is from 2004, namely “The Void part One”, which still creates special drama and strong emotions for me. I don’t have much interest in reviving the old material. The compositions feel like intellectual baby steps, on the way to where we are now. I don’t dislike that stuff, but it doesn’t reflect where I am currently. It is the past. It’s always easy to write more material and I believe I am better at it now, so no looking backwards is really necessary. I believe progression is important, nostalgia is not.
UPEE：The Flying Luttenbachers 是一支具有“在地性”的队伍，也有许多闻名于前卫领域的音乐人曾作为乐手。乐队复出以来的成员组成跟纽约阵容十分相关，而在此之后你们回到了芝加哥，你们会如何形容城市及其音乐场景对你们的影响？
Weasel：我的音乐生涯辗转多地——起步于芝加哥，之后迁居加州，再到纽约，最终重回芝加哥。未来或许还会去往其他城市，但目前我定居于此。
我始终追随各地的音乐氛围、圈子生态与优秀乐手而流动，这让我能长久保持创作活力、灵感与投入感。过去三十年，我始终维持高强度的专注与创作张力，现在回想甚至有些难以置信——尤其是大部分创作都在资源有限、鲜有主流认可的条件下完成。
90 年代的芝加哥是我的起点，如今我也重回这座城市，但我始终和当地主流音乐圈保持疏离，身处氛围之外。2003 年搬到加州，是为了融入旧金山蓬勃的地下音乐浪潮，也让我重新找到了自己在即兴音乐领域的定位。2010 年代，纽约涌现大量机会与活跃的音乐生态吸引了我，但最终我厌倦了日复一日的生存挣扎，多重原因之下选择重返芝加哥。如今的美国整体环境十分动荡，未来去向尚不可知。无论身在何处，我的创作核心始终由自己掌控，但周遭的城市环境与氛围，确实会潜移默化影响作品的最终呈现。
In my life as a musician, I operated first in Chicago, then California, then New York City, and finally back in Chicago. There could be another place in the future, but I am here now. I followed the energy, scenes, and musicians in each case, which allowed me to stay vital, inspired, and engaged. I was able to sustain so much focus and intensity for the last three decades. It’s almost hard to believe what I did, particularly since most of it was done with very limited resources or recognition. Chicago in the ‘90s was my beginning and current environment, but I feel very contrary to it and outside of the scene. In 2003, I moved to California to be a part of a thriving movement in San Francisco and also rediscovered my place in the field of improvised music. In the ‘10s, New York called to me with a lot of opportunity and activity, but I eventually got tired of the day-to-day struggles and moved back to Chicago for a number of reasons. The USA is very chaotic currently. I don’t know what the future holds. Wherever I am, my mind is always at the center of the creativity, but the variables can influence the output.
UPEE：对于即将在明天音乐节进行表演有什么期待？
Weasel：我们非常荣幸受邀来到中国演出。这也是乐队 2026 年的唯一一场演出，我们希望刻意为观众留下一场难忘的现场体验。我们将带来一整套打磨多年的史诗级长篇作品。这些曲目早已超越普通“歌曲”的范畴，更像通往迷幻精神维度的结构入口。也在此诚邀各位一同踏入虚无之境。
We are much honored to be invited to China to perform. This is our only performance in 2026, and we intend it to be memorable. We will perform a long set of the epic material we have been honing for some years now. These pieces we play are more than“songs”– they are structural portholes into psychedelic dimensions. We invite you to enter the void with us.